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[+] ballot by Jolly

The Palestinians are terrorists,right?WRONG
The Palestinians murder Israeli civilians,right?WRONG.
The Palestians commit horrible crimes against Israelis,right?WRONG.
Well go to this link(I added a space between the 2 slashes and "images"):
http: // images.search.yahoo.com/search/images/view?back=http%3A%2F%2Fimages.search.yahoo.com%2Fsearch%2Fimages%3Fp%3Darab%2Bwomen%2B%26ei%3DUTF-8%26fr%3DFP-tab-web-t-236%26fl%3D0%26x%3Dwrt&h=240&w=320&imgcurl=po55um.tripod.com%2Fjews%2Fatrocimg%2FI7000000.jpg&imgurl=po55um.tripod.com%2Fjews%2Fatrocimg%2FI7000000.jpg&size=29.4kB&name=I7000000.jpg&rcurl=http%3A%2F%2Fpo55um.tripod.com%2Fjews%2Fatrocities.html&rurl=http%3A%2F%2Fpo55um.tripod.com%2Fjews%2Fatrocities.html&p=arab+women&type=jpeg&no=16&tt=3,817


I cant believe this is ignored by the world!

Horrible
Palestinians are murderers
Israelis are murderers
Horrible - and we're helping to finance it
I would prefer to see the end of the conflict
When you support terror and hate, this is what you get!
This is an extremely poor, superficial and pathetic ballot about the Israeli/Palestinian conflict!
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Yosi-Yes ok Jews have suffered throughtout history but does that justify the crimes the Israelis are doing?Why do Israelis put their anger out on Palestinians as if they have been putting them ghettos and concentration camps,when it was infact Europe who hated them and did these things?By the way,there were many jews living in Palestine peacefully before the idea of zionism was being formed.You can honestly tell me now,that america would be happy and willing to create a Red Indian state now?That is why Palestinians didnt want a jewish state..which country in the world is willing to share their country with foriegn people?

entered by : Jolly
Submitted on : Apr 22,2005 5:07:21 pm

COMMENTS
This link does not work


ignore that. I'm an idiot. it works. sorry.
Sick. I've known this for a long time. Israel would have you believe they are innocent victims. Want to know why the world does not know about this? Take a guess. In the USA, there is a very, very powerfule zionist lobby and they pull strings, manipulate the truth and PREVENT this sort of fact from ever seeing the light of day. Don't care who says otherwise, it is what I belive. The Palestinian people not only had their homeland ripped from under them, but they have been demonized in the press because of Israel. People wonder why the Palestinians are mad!? Come one...any one of us would be enraged if we had to endure what they have. "Sorry Palestinian people, you know how this USED to be your country...well ha! not anymore...now it's Israel, so submit!" Yeah, reas just man.
I'm so proud that weapons "Made in the USA" are being used every day all over the world
by Jyl [+]

(oh I forgot, not just "made in the USA", but made for our military, whose weapons we sell when they get dusty)
by Jyl [+]

Most people of the world use Russian and old German guns. Israelis if thats who you are talking about, then yes they use our guns.
One day our children and grandchildren will look at us and say, "How could you have let this happen?"

It's a desperate situation. The Jews and Arabs of the region co-existed in relative harmony for hundreds of years until foreign powers began meddling in affairs of state. The majority of people on both sides are for peace, but the powers-that-be continue to fan the flames of racial and religious hatred.
by zig [+]

Hello?Anybody there?Yosi?Herzog?
Most of you will never know how hard life is over in Israeli. A fellow student of mine came from there and lost his best friend in a suicide blast. Muslims had no reguard for any infidel. I support Israel 100%
Besides Israel is a better ally to the U.S. than most of our "European Friends."
Don't talk utter shite Irish_Scand/RRW, compare the life of an average Palestinian to an average Israeli, the country was built off terrorism and is still going on carried out by the IDF. Ironic how Israeli terrorist were killing British soldiers in Palestine while the same British troops were liberating Nazi concentration camps.
RRW, I must really disagree with you on this. You need to do much more research on this. Israel has sold us out more than you know and whether you realize it or not, they intentionally set up a zionist lobby in the US that literally controls much of our press and has incredible influence in our government. They have and do sell secret technology to China, among other things. You support them because you THINK that is what a good Republican should do and because you THINK that Televangelists are right when they talk about Israel. They do not have it as hard as the Palestinans do. What about the group of American Jewish students who lived for a year in Israel, came back to the US and blasted Israel for their inhumane treatment of the Palestinians. If you love the US as much as you say you do, then please, open your eyes and dig deeper for the truth---if you get your news from CNN or Fox, then you are NOT getting the truth! You can believe me or not, but more and more Americans are realizing that Israel is not our "good ally" and that Israel does what is good for them. Are you aware that Paul Wolfowitz (an American!!), is reported to be so in the pocket of Israel that he brought Israeli agents to a meeting at the Pentagon to go over "intelligence" before we invaded Iraq and that intelligence was fakd and HE KNEW THIS BEFORE HAND!! That is treason! But... notice how the story came out and literally the same day...disappeared! Why do you think that is!? Sometimes, conspiracy theories are not theories at all..sometimes they are fact. My loyalty is to the US, but the zionist lobby in the US puts their loyalty to Israel first. You support Israel 100% because you are either not looking at the reality, or your just chosing sides based on what you belive is true. Its not.
And RRW, it is my personal belief and my hope that in the very near future, the US will cut Israel off. You gotta put your ear to the gound and listen, because anti-Israeli sentiment is not just growing in Europe, it's really growing here too. Are hundreds of millions of people wrong??
Any side in a war, especially a war that its battlefields are the cities, either by terrorist attacks on Israeli cities, or by forcing the Israelis to fight the terrorists while they're using the civilian population as human shields. If they were so "rational" why do they operate from within their cities and refugee camps, and operate, like more moral terrorist groups, like Al Qaeda, from unpopulated caves and mountains? Did you ever heard about such things in Jericho? Do you have any idea why? Because there is no terrorist infrastructure in Jericho - no cells, no weapons laboratories, not armed militants in the streets, no children and pregnant women used to smuggle weapons through checkpoints etc.
You don't have to look so far in quest to prove that the US sells weapons to "brutal" people - try Sadaam Hussein, and practically every dictator in America during the cold war... And, of course Bin Laden. Now I'll look for links of photographs for "what they don't show you" of Palestinian terror, but I think that we can agree that some of the most horrific pictures there were of burned people, now think of this - in any suicide bombing, the victims will look just the same or much worse... at least 700 Israelis in the last 5 years, DIED (not just wounded) mainly because of the bomb effects .

Yosi-I know that both sides have suffered,700 Israelis dead is horrible but thousands of Palestinians have died too!And those people were normal civilians,come on are you saying that those children are 'helping' terrorists?Not one of those 77 photos was a terrorist was shown.All were innocent children,women and men.And Yosi,the Israeli army has the best weapons,so if you were Palestinian and you mother was shot infront of you or your child was burnt to death,how would you feel?Would you just say'Oh well,whatever'?
Those children helped the terrorists, by being human shields to them - either voluntarily and either by force, and they were caught in the crossfire and died, you can't say that about the 700 dead Israelis from suicide bombings alone. I'll tell you that - if my mother was shot in front of me and I thought that it justifies me killing someone else's mother - I don't deserve to have my own country - right? Do you know how many jewish mothers and children were killed by the Germans? And how many jews actually killed INNOCENT Germans (meaning not SS or military men) as revenge?
What do you think would have happen had the Palestinian terrorists really managed their operations from outside the Palestinian population?
And what would the US do if Al Qaeda was hiding and operasting from within supportive Afghan urban population?
Don't avoid those questions.

isay : " Ironic how Israeli terrorist were killing British soldiers in Palestine while the same British troops were liberating Nazi concentration camps. "

Emphasize the "SOLDIERS" part, as opposed to "CHILDREN IN QUEUE TO DISCOTEQUE", or "PEOPLE ON A BUS", and don't forget that the British "Palestine for Arabs" policy from 1939, caused Britain to refuse to recieve one single jewish refugee from Hitler above the yearly limit of 15000. Hitler declared that nobody should blame him for not wanting the jews if nobody wants to recieve them, including Britain. Millions could have been saved if Britain neglected its Imperialistic dreams before WWII instead of after WWII.

Yosi-What do you mean those kids were helping the terrorist?You cant just say every child killed by the soldiers was helping the terrorists!What was their fault?There is no proof they were helping the terrorist.If you say the palestinian children were at the wrong place(which is always the excuse the Israeli army uses) then I guess you can say the Israeli children were at the wrong place.I definately do not support suicide bombings but hey the Israeli army dont seem to have a problem killing innocent people so why should the bombers?Yes millions of innocent jews died and were tortured by Nazis which was disgusting and Nazis certainly deserve to die.I dont if jews ever killed innocent germans.And how would you feel if your family has been living in a place for decades and suddenly people come and say'Well this our land,its written in our holy book,we want it back'?
Disagree with me all you want but that doesn't revoke my support for Isreal. Europeans have always hated jews so I really don't care what you think isay.
This kids were used as human shields for the terrorists causing either the soldiers to hesitate before firing back, or to the soldiers to miss their target and hit the children causing the terrorists to win battles in the internationl advocation arena. Children are shot during gun battles in the crowded Palestinian cities, that's the wrong place - but not from the side of the children, but from the terrorists side, which take their war into their civilian ground.
In our side, you don't hear of that many busses that are being exploded when empty - right? So every crowded place is the wrong place for us - isn't it? If Palestinian civilians don't want to get hurt they shouldn't :
Come out of their houses during curfews; Stay away from IDF posts, as well as terrorists nests; That's pretty much it, because you see, they are not the target.
" the Israeli army dont seem to have a problem killing innocent people so why should the bombers? "
That only indicates about your ignorance in that area. The IDF open fire orders are closely and particulary enforced, and the values that are presented to the soldiers are in the spirit of the Geneva pact and so on.
" And how would you feel if your family has been living in a place for decades and suddenly people come and say'Well this our land,its written in our holy book,we want it back'? "
Well we have dealt with simply "get out of your land" by the Babylonians, Assyrians, Romans before, and living among foreigners in their country satisfied us for almost 2000 years, so why can't the Palestinians join their 3 million brothers who currently call Jordan their home? It's much better having a country of your own in other place thatn go through the jews' travels throughout the world. They can even call the UAE their home, but what option did the jews had? And how many innocent Romans did they killed?

This kids were used as human shields for the terrorists causing either the soldiers to hesitate before firing back, or to the soldiers to miss their target and hit the children causing the terrorists to win battles in the internationl advocation arena. Children are shot during gun battles in the crowded Palestinian cities, that's the wrong place - but not from the side of the children, but from the terrorists side, which take their war into their civilian ground.
In our side, you don't hear of that many busses that are being exploded when empty - right? So every crowded place is the wrong place for us - isn't it? If Palestinian civilians don't want to get hurt they shouldn't :
Come out of their houses during curfews; Stay away from IDF posts, as well as terrorists nests; That's pretty much it, because you see, they are not the target.
" the Israeli army dont seem to have a problem killing innocent people so why should the bombers? "
That only indicates about your ignorance in that area. The IDF open fire orders are closely and particulary enforced, and the values that are presented to the soldiers are in the spirit of the Geneva pact and so on.
" And how would you feel if your family has been living in a place for decades and suddenly people come and say'Well this our land,its written in our holy book,we want it back'? "
Well we have dealt with simply "get out of your land" by the Babylonians, Assyrians, Romans before, and living among foreigners in their country satisfied us for almost 2000 years, so why can't the Palestinians join their 3 million brothers who currently call Jordan their home? It's much better having a country of your own in other place thatn go through the jews' travels throughout the world. They can even call the UAE their home, but what option did the jews had? And how many innocent Romans did they kill?

Yes,Yosi,the Israeli army is very careful to avoid shooting children.Expain to me the reason why a baby girl was shot in the stomach.She was shot in her home.Explain to me why they broke into a house and shot a 13-year-old girl in the chest to death,thinking she had a bomb in her schoolbag.And surprise,no bomb was found and they apologized for the terrible mistake?Explain this:WEST BANK -- On April 15, 2004, Israeli police in the Palestinian village of Biddu in the occupied West Bank, tied 13-year-old Muhammed Badwan like a trophy deer to the hood of their police jeep. "He was a shield for them," said the boy's father, Saeed Badwan, a 34-year-old laborer. "When I saw him on the hood of the jeep, my whole mind went crazy... It's a picture you can't even imagine. He was shivering from fear."

"I was scared when they got me...I cried on the hood of the jeep, and when I saw my dad," Muhammed said.

The Israeli tactic is to use Palestinians as human shields whenever they are involved in military operations or police actions involvingquelling protests, which was whathad transpired in Biddu. The Israelis used Palestinians as humna shields in 2002 in the courseof the siege of Jenin.

"There is supposed to be an injunction against the (Israeli) military... But there is evidence it (using Palestinians as human shields) is still continuing..." said Marwan Dalal, a lawyer with the Arab human rights group Adalah. The attorney said it was more common for soldiers to use Palestinians as human shields in military operations.Explain this:A Palestinian girl carries her infant brother in the village of Beit Lahiya, Oct. 6, 2004. Both were wounded by Israeli bombs as they slept..Explain:The body of Mohammad Abu Kweik, 8, is lifted from the carnage after the Mitsubishi pick-up truck he was travelling in was bombed by Israeli forces in the West Bank Palestinian ghetto of Ramallah, March 4, 2002. Six Palestinian civilians, including the boy's mother, Bushra Kweik, 38, and two sisters, Bara, 14, and Aziza, 16, were killed when Israeli troops bombed their truck after their mother had picked them up from school. The car behind them was also hit. The man the Israelis were attempting to assassinate was not in either vehicle. Two Palestinian children, ages 4 and 16, were killed in the second vehicle.Explain:On Nov. 22, 2001, five Palestinian school boys ages 7 to 14 were on their way to classes in the Gaza strip when they were killed by a bomb planted by Israeli forces.
Terrorists,aye?




RRW, you should not bring the religion into this. It has nothing to do with it, or at least is should not. Israel is a nation and NOT a religion. I hate when you ask someone what nationality they are, and they reply "I'm Jewish." No, you're religion may be Jewish...but that is NOT a national ethnicity. So as far as I'm concerned, Israel is a nation and to bring their religion inot this is a Red Herring! (I heard that recently and love that phrase! :)
You don't have to look so far in quest to prove that the US sells weapons to "brutal" people - try Sadaam Hussein, and practically every dictator in America during the cold war... by Yosi on Apr 22, 2005


And there you go RRW! Is this what you mean about their being a good ally?! Sure they are...when they're under the gun or their motives and actions are questioned...the first thing an Israeli does is to try and shift the blame onto the US. They have a history of doing this...which is why we are a terrorist target. You say you love the USA RRW, then prove it. Open your eyes and examine the truth.

Listen, Jews have been under persectution and have been being killed for centuries. Mainly by Arabs and Europeans. The jews are also a ethnicity in the Middle Eastern race. They are hebrew hence they call themselves jews, unless of course their family intermixed in Eastern Europe and some of Western Europe, then they would be considered a Russian Jew etc. Yosi is an individual not the entire Israeli nation. You really can't say anything about Israel and how the palestinians live UNLESS you are one.
RRW, you're being hypocritical! You yourself said something about how they lived. Why is it okay for you to have and voice opinions? Are you Israeli? Jewish has nothing to do with it, and that is that. Jews being persecuted has nothing to do with how the state of Israel conducts itself. If you feel wholly qualified to express your views, and you are not Israeli or Palestinian, then it's obviously acceptable for the rest of us to do so as well. Unless of course it's because our opinions differ from yours and you don't like that. I will continue to express my opinion. You mentioned that you "had a friend in your school from Israel." Great! My school has huge numbers of international students and it does so for a reason. Believe me, I know my fair share of people of Arab nationality and Israeli nationality as well.
I just wonder how come people have so much to say about the American arms deals with Israel, and yet they remain silent about other American arms deals. Patch, you'll find yourself very soon use the "everyone were / are doing exactly the same " when you'll be attacked by hippocritical questions about the US policy. The difference about me is that I really don't think that many of the stuff that I "throw the blame on others" are wrong, but people like you choose to criticize Israel alone doing that, and not their nor other countries.
Jolly, you can't win and ugly war using only clean methods, and I won't agree to lose one, just because I don't want to "be on their level " so Israel does, what most of the enlightened countries would do in the same situation, or even less, but we will not surrender to terror.
The question you have to ask yourself is whether any of those things would have happenned if the Palestinians laid down their weapons and try solve the problem by peace negotiations. And because I see that you're not an American, I'll direct my other questions to patch :
" What do you think would have happen had the Palestinian terrorists really managed their operations from outside the Palestinian population?
And what would the US do if Al Qaeda was hiding and operasting from within supportive Afghan urban population? "

I just wonder how come people have so much to say about the American arms deals with Israel, and yet they remain silent about other American arms deals. by Yosi

Yosi, this is why I don't know why you and I bother with an exchange. I have stated clearly that one of my problems with Israel is that in every situation, you drag us into your mess. And you do it constantly. You don't respond to what pertains to Israel, you bring up something about the US. It reminds me of "oh yeah...well what about the US deals with..." What about them!? Deal with the topic at hand. Stop dragging us into the argument. Stop using our name. Stop deflecting back onto the US. Our arms deals are totally questionable in some cases. But you can deny all you want that Israel has sold OUR secrets, but they have! You've taken stuff we've given Israel, used it on civilians and then you also sell it to China and Russia. Yosi, this debate just goes in circled. One reason why your argument, and those of like mind as you, loses credibility, is because you bring in the persecution of the Jews. RRW did it in both posts. Do you know how that makes Israel look? In a sense, it is and admission of guilt because what that means is your are in essence saying "oh yeah, well..umm, what about the persecution of the Jews?" That to me means that you know the accusations are true, but what you're doing is trying to justify them by brining up persection of the Jews. One has nothing to do wit the other and in fact, because the Jewish religion has suffered so much persecution, you'd think that Israel would be more sensitive to Palestinian civilians. If so much of the world believes Israel is brutal and unjust in its dealings with Palestinians, why do you think that is? Is a vast majority of the world wrong? Could so many, many people be wrong? Maybe? But I doubt it. Stop brining religion into this and please stop dragging the US into this all the time. It's getting very old.

Yosi-Yes ok Jews have suffered throughtout history but does that justify the crimes the Israelis are doing?Why do Israelis put their anger out on Palestinians as if they have been putting them ghettos and concentration camps,when it was infact Europe who hated them and did these things?By the way,there were many jews living in Palestine peacefully before the idea of zionism was being formed.You can honestly tell me now,that america would be happy and willing to create a Red Indian state now?That is why Palestinians didnt want a jewish state..which country in the world is willing to share their country with foriegn people?
which country in the world is willing to share their country with foriegn people?
by Jolly on Apr 22, 2005

Well the US does Jolly and many others :) But there is a huge difference when major powers come and say "this is no longer your land. This is now Israel." The question I ask, why won't Israel give full citizenship to Palestinians? Know why...guess! Listen, many Americans are super-sensitive to this because of the Native Americans and how thew were pushed aside. They're citizens, but still, what can ever really make up for the injustice they have experienced? Nothing. What America has to do is to say "we are sorry." Even though this happened over 150 years ago, it was wrong and Europe and what became the United States is sorry." I don't know, maybe thats lame, but its something.

Israel's creation didn't just take thier homeland, but now these same people, these Palestinian people, who are innocent, can't even be citizens in the land that was theirs?? How can that be right?

Draging us to your mess? Is it possible that the US is above criticism that you apply in Israel's case? Why won't you take the "Our arms deals are totally questionable in some cases" explanation in Israel's case?
jolly, which crimes do you refer to? the past or present? The anger about the Palestinians is a dirsect result of 100 years of Palestinian terror, which among lots of other stuff, caused Britain to apartheid style declare palestine as Arab land in 1939, limiting jewish immigration to Palestine to only 15000 people a year, when the jewish nation needed the most a safe haven from Hitler. You do know that the Arabs in general were pro Hitler - right?
Patch, if the US does, why don't you give the Indians a territory of their own, as independent country? or better yet, leave America and go back to europe? In 100 years, we will be just in your position (maybe 350 considering your exact location). Giving the Palestinians living beyond the Green line of 1949 is not an issue, as the entire world opposed and caused Israel not to annex the West Bank and Gaza. Where is the logic behind giving people which don't live in your country citinzenship? The Palestinians who do live inside the country's declared borders have been given citinzenship, and they are the first Arabs to live under democracy in the middle east, maybe excluding the Arab minority in Turkey.
" Israel's creation didn't just take thier homeland, but now these same people, these Palestinian people, who are innocent, can't even be citizens in the land that was theirs?? How can that be right? "

So why don't you give all the Mexicans American citinzenship? Even the Russians once held Alaska, why do you prevent them from returning to it?

Yosi, I'm sorry. I'm not going to even bother. I just want the US to cut Israel off and I want the zionist lobby out of my country. Sorry, its just how I feel. You know my position: if you're an American, your loyalty is to us...if not, then move to Israel. End of discussion on my part.
How would you feel if I said : "If you live in Israel be loyal to Israel, otherwise move to neighboring Arab countries". Sounds racist when I say it - right?
But Yosi, Race has absolutely nothing to do with this issue. Why do you keep brining race into this? Being Jewish has nothing to do with this and Judasim is a religion and not a race. Besides, yes, that's how I feel. The zionist lobby in the US is more loyal to Israel and if they are trying to influence our country and they are, then as Americans, we have a right to tell them that they either stop promoting Israel's agenda at the expense of our security and interests, or they should then go to Israel. That is not wrong. This zinoist lobby is very much a minority, yet they have tremendous influenc. A majority of Americans are tired of it, so therefore, the majority opinion needs to be considered.

You weaken your case everytime you bring up race and religion. Stick to the fact that being Israeli is a citizenry national identity and not a race and not a religion! Until you can stick to the facts in that regard, you, and those of like mind as you, seem desperate.

And Yosi, whether you want to hear this or not, the reality is, talk to or listen to the average American and you'll discover that Americans in general do view Israel with suspicion. What we can't understand is how certain elements of our government continue to support Israel without question, when that policy of support clearly contradicts what the people feel and want. Why do you think that is?? Take a guess. Yes, this may sound scary, but in terms of our relationship with Israel, I do believe that a new era is on the horizon and Israel will find itself totally isolated and without total US support. There was a poll that asked people around the world which nation they viewed as the biggest threat to peace -- Israel was number 1. I believe that as well in many ways. I think the US was number 2. It is my belief that it is because of Israel. I also believe the reports that say intentional lies by the Israeli government and false intelligence given to us by Israel, was one of the reasons that dolt in the White House invaded Iraq. W. is a paranoid man and he bought the line your government fed us without question. That has to change.
And in terms of "our friends," one user on here says that Israel is a better ally to the US than Europe. No way. Our cultural ties with Europe are very, very deep and no matter what this user believes, Europe is the ally I value, not Israel.
As I see it, you just lost your case when you brought up the " The zionist lobby in the US is more loyal to Israel and if they are trying to influence our country and they are, then as Americans, we have a right to tell them that they either stop promoting Israel's agenda at the expense of our security and interests, or they should then go to Israel. ". Israel has 1.3 million non jewish citizens, of whom over 1 million are Arabs, and the rest are Druzians, Bedouians, Circassians etc. Those groups are loyal to the country in terms of : They serve in the military, they honor the national anthem, flag, declaration of independence principles etc., as opposed to the Arab Israelis, whop proved time after time to which side they're loyal to. The most recent was the mini intifada they (not all but a majority...) arranged in October 2000. According to your idea of what's right or wrong, the fact that they value Arab interests more than Israel's, gives Israel the right to demand that they'll "go to Arab countries". Same with the Palestinians - why should Israel give them citinzenship if they openly declare they want a state of their own - meaning that they don't put Israel on top... Now, I don't think it's right, nor want it to happen this fascist way you just described, but that should make you rethink about your attitude towards Israel's policies, after you now understand that it's clearly much more moderate than your ideas about unloyal population. This is not about race, I can just enter the backdoor, like you and Hitler and many others did and pull the "loyality to the country" excuses.
Do you have any polls / numbers or something more concrete than "growing sentiments" or "talk and listen to the average American"? Becuase the las time I saw such results our situation wasn't that bad - with sympathy of about 40% vs. 15% for the Palestinians.
Do you have any polls / numbers or something more concrete than "growing sentiments" or "talk and listen to the average American"? Becuase the las time I saw such results our situation wasn't that bad - with sympathy of about 40% vs. 15% for the Palestinians.
by Yosi on Apr 23, 2005

Don't need them. Those "polls" you refer to are faked. Zionists you know :) Could not really care less what lies zionist dogs put out to try and prop up support for Israel. The reality is that the average American did not take part in them and the numbers are reversed. If anything, it's 40% sympathy for the Palestinians and maybe 10% for Israel. That's the reality.

This is not about race, I can just enter the backdoor, like you and Hitler and many others did and pull the "loyality to the country" excuses.
by Yosi on Apr 23, 2005


Yosi, do you not get it? I DON'T CARE! No matter what you put up, I don't care. I will not change my opinion about Israel. Sorry. I sent you a private message telling you that I felt bad that it seemed like the argument was totally against you and Israel, but obviously, you paid not attention to it.

Let me make this clear, once and for all: I DO NOT LIKE ISRAEL, NOR DO I TRUST ISRAEL. MANY, MANY MORE AMERICANS FEEL THIS WAY THAN YOU WILL ADMIT TO. ASK FOR POLL NUMBERS ALL YOU WANT, BECAUSE ANY POLL SHOWING AMERICAN SUPPORT FOR ISRAEL IS A LIE. If you want to have it whitewashed, then believe what you want to. So again: I DETEST ISRAEL AND THE PALESTINIANS ARE THE VICTIMS AND THE ISRAEL'S ARE THE AGRESSORS.

And Yosi, this should be about governments more than people. I do not approve of much of the Bush administration or thier actions, but I'm still an American and happy to be. Its the same with Israel...your government is agressive and opressive to the innocent Palestinians...I'm not saying average folks are. What ever, you and I will never agree, so we just need to stop debating. :)
Yosi-Jews suffered.ok.They wanted a safe place from Hitler.Ok I get that.But what did the Jews do instead?THEY DECIDED TO MAKE PALESTINE A NATION FOR THIER OWN!Thats VERY different from "we just a safe place to stay in".Thats why terror gangs were formed and Palestinians hate Israelis.Ofcourse they are,the Jews changed the whole country.And the Jews claimed this land was theirs.The proof:A 3000 year old holy book...wow ,very good excuse.And there wasnt only Palestinian terror gangs,dont forget groups like Irgun Zwei Leumi,Haganah and the Stern Gang.And you said if Palestinians lay their weapons down,negotiations for peace will be possible.Woah...maybe if the Israeli army can stop shooting innocent people,including babies, and if one of your respected religious men in your community can stop saying:"One million Arabs are not worth a Jewish fingernail."
-Rabbi Yaacov Perrin, Feb. 27, 1994 ... then maybe peace will be possible.

The jews didn't came to Israel because it was a safe haven from Hitler, but because that was their ancient homeland. One of the major thing about being a jew is that your ancestors once settled this land, and if the jewish nationality will rise again, it'll happen only in the original homeland - Israel. By Hitler's time there were already 350,000 Zionists in Israel, and that land was promised to be a national home for the jews, not by god, but by the british, in the mandate commitment of Palestine, which was accepted by the league of nations. As to the chance of having peace, I think the Palestinians have much more to lose should it'll not happen, so they have very little room for negotiating. Unlike Israel, which is in complete control of its citinzens, the Palestinian side, which is consisted of many uncontrolable groups, among which, the Hamas which announced that it'll never accept Israeli presence in Palestine, so just laying down our arms will not satisfy Hamas. On the other hand, the only obstacle to peace and mutual recognition from the Israeli side, is the terror.
Yasser Arafat, which is more important than that Rabbi Perrin, said almost regulary that million martyrs march to Jerusalem - meaning that he's willing to sacrifies one million Palestinians for a piece of land, so it's not just Perrin who undervaluates Palestinians' lives, right?

As an American, i can promise you that Americans, as a majority, are not even close to the ideas of a member called "Patch22us" here... not even in California where i live... Maybe "patch" and his friends are the majority in his world...
The majority of Americans do appreciate and value the contribution of the Jewish people to this country, including the loyalty of the Zionist lobby to this country! Why is it o.k for one to support the Palestinians, but for the other who support Israel, suddenly his loyalty to the U.S is in question???
Without the Jews the economy of this country wouldn't be as strong, and that's the truth! Americans do value the friendship and support of Israel and we have the same values of strong democracy and freedom for all... The only difference is that we, in the U.S, do not suffer from constant and daily terrorism from our neighbors on the same level that Israel suffers... Any country in the world would act the same way as Israel do with a Palestinian like neighbors, Including European countries which "Patch" adores so much...
The only thing i hate the most is hypocricy...





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