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prediction : religion :
[+] ballot by RobinGaylord

I ask this because of all the interference they’ve attempted in this country’s attempt to hold onto the separation in church and state our forefathers established. For people claiming to be conservatives this is very boldly against conserving our countries established moral basis. When people say they don’t want organized prayer in school it is because they don’t want the government having a say in our children’s religious practices. They are not “devil worshipers” and to be honest anyone who calls them that looks blatantly ignorant. Theocracies are the staple of an unstable government; the Middle East is full of them and they are typically torn in a perpetual civil war. Why anyone thinks America should be more like Iran than a rational secular society I don’t know, but I have heard people on this site refer to America as a theocracy and it shows just how uneducated the people supporting this issue are. Do you think that the Christian right is trying to turn America into a theocracy?

Yes. I will comment below.
No. I will comment below.

Ballot #77434 : SEE RESULTS

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Robin...dude...the flaw in your arguement is that it is the Christian theocracy that our forefathers built this country's moral principles upon. But they were also smart enough to allow for religious tolerance, probably because they foresaw the dangers in a society where too much theocracy can be very dangerous (Muslim mandatory conformity for example, which could eventually lead to forms of extremism such as the fundamentalists who are bombing the shit out of us today). Or too little theocracy, where a general form of anarchism would take place and a society could not be maintained. You do have the right to believe and worship whatever deity you choose, but there are some simple rules and beliefs that everyone must share in order to preserve a society. I think what people are most afraid of these days (and with good right) is that if these basic Christian values and beliefs are taken away (which are rooted in love, respect, and care for your fellow man), that the country will fall apart, or even worse,become like other countries where the die hard religious zealots refuse to conform to religious tolerance (which they see as abandonment of their fundamental values and beliefs)and begin to kill people in order to preserve what they feel is the "right way". If you live in America, you really do live in the greatest country in the world, and you should be glad that "Theocracy" is a part of it, because without it, who knows what the world would be like?

entered by : Freon
Submitted on : Jul 15,2005 8:45:10 pm

COMMENTS
no and far from it. most americans are moderate. it just seems like the christian right has a great deal of influence because of the association they have with conservative republicans. ultimately, catholics are a vast majority in this country and catholics tend to be more liberal and tend to shy away from religion and politics.


Kinky is using a feather.
Perverted is using the whole chicken.

What you mean it isn't already?
Because you specified the Christian Right, rather than all Christians, I'll say "yes."

I believe this subset does want to impose their religion, culture, and lifestyle on the country.

Robin...dude...the flaw in your arguement is that it is the Christian theocracy that our forefathers built this country's moral principles upon. But they were also smart enough to allow for religious tolerance, probably because they foresaw the dangers in a society where too much theocracy can be very dangerous (Muslim mandatory conformity for example, which could eventually lead to forms of extremism such as the fundamentalists who are bombing the shit out of us today). Or too little theocracy, where a general form of anarchism would take place and a society could not be maintained. You do have the right to believe and worship whatever deity you choose, but there are some simple rules and beliefs that everyone must share in order to preserve a society. I think what people are most afraid of these days (and with good right) is that if these basic Christian values and beliefs are taken away (which are rooted in love, respect, and care for your fellow man), that the country will fall apart, or even worse,become like other countries where the die hard religious zealots refuse to conform to religious tolerance (which they see as abandonment of their fundamental values and beliefs)and begin to kill people in order to preserve what they feel is the "right way". If you live in America, you really do live in the greatest country in the world, and you should be glad that "Theocracy" is a part of it, because without it, who knows what the world would be like?
No. Christian influence is not necessarily an attempt at theocracy.

Now when I hear about a proposed law demanding church affiliation, baptism,tithing, dress codes, etc.. I'll just have to eat my words.

Everyone is guilty of trying to turn America into their version of "what America should be."
No. Prayer in school and Ten Commandments in courthouses are old ideas, not new ones. If anything, the Christian right is fighting change, not creating it.
Absolutely! Will they succeed? Not a chance. At the core, Americans cherish freedom and choices, and the Christian Right is committed to limiting our right and ability to choose.

Intolerance is the only thing we must never tolerate.

I dont want the right dictating new moral standards but at the same time I dont want traditional values and religious rights thrown away. This nation has had something precious that others don't. I agree with Johnny Reb.
I'd rather say someone is scarrying you with a cristaian conspiracy stuff so you can't see how they are actually taking away your freedom. This is the oldest trick in thebook, you know.
RobinGAylord has already made his mind up and will refuse to change his beliefs even if they are proven to be false right in front of his face. His a political extremist and this discussion is pointless.

A theocracy would require the elimination of democracy. There is no set representative of the christian right, but you will find most right wing christians to want to keep democracy.

P.S. I am not a christian, muslim, conservative, liberal, athiest, agnostic, communist, fascist or anything else which you believe makes my opinion void without having to challenge me in debate.

Thanks.

They would if they could.
I agree with Freon and Johnny Reb
eoganan- You know nothing about me and that leads me to seriously question your ability gain an objective view of anything. You have no reason to believe that I wouldn’t believe something even when faced with indisputable evidence. I can only speculate as to the source of your hostility. I think you are using what psychologists call projection- projecting your own flaws and insecurity onto someone else because you fear that if it is exposed that you will have to face it. The only real objective in this type of behavior is that you reason by attempting to portray me as yourself you can avoid being exposed by making the first accusations and if I were to retaliate and then expose all the flaws you are hiding you can put me on the defensive. The main reason I think this is what you are doing is because of your relatively low input on this site. It leads me to believe that you are just another user using that username to hide your identity because you don’t want to be held accountable for your actions.
Freon- Your theories about how this country was founded are about the most ignorant things I’ve ever read. Thomas Jefferson built his political career on establishing America as a secular government. Have you read the first amendment? No one in this country wanted to have to answer first and foremost to any church, since the majority of the colonists were British they had a first hand knowledge of what it is like to have to pay taxes and support a church (Anglican) that they didn’t believe in (since some were deists, atheists, agnostics, etc.). Monogamy is not praised in the bible over polygamy yet polygamy is illegal in America. Now slavery and the Native American holocaust may have been Christian ‘values’ since those types of activities are praised and/or accepted in the bible, but I’d rather believe that our forefathers were just using a moral compass even if it is in spite of their “Christian values” just like many modern Christians do.
Yes, and Pat Robertson and his ilk have openly admitted it.
I think eoganan is probably accurate in the statement you wouldn't believe in God if the proof was in front of you. We may not know you but we read your seething hate ballots directed against religion of any kind.
"you wouldn't believe in God if the proof was in front of you"

Many deluded people have levelled this kind of thing at me in the past.

The problem is that if the proof was there in front of us we wouldn't need to doubt!

In the same way that I'd change my dearly held notions about the world in the light of new scientific evidence just show me the proof and I'll believe.

Those people who have 'faith' do so in spite of the evidence to the contrary. It is virtually impossible to change their minds and free them from the chains of religion.





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