COMMENTS:
What about the Australians, didn't they take the land from teh aboriginees? Also, I doubt many Canadians have native blood. So, to answer your question, nope.
You're right of course. Australia was stolen from the aborigines and Canada was stolen also, along with the land of many other nations. So is there (or will there be) a price to pay at some time in the future?
Well, the question uses the word "is", implying the present tense. We've been in wars off and on pretty much since the US came into existence. If the Iraq war is what you're referring to, then I would have to say no because although many American troops have died there, the overall number is probably less than the amount that died in the first few hours of the Normandy invasion alone. If you're referring to 9/11, think of all the things you dont hear about that have been stopped. If there really was a karmic price being paid by teh US, Id bet that a lot more plots, such as the 1 thwarted when a terrorist, hoping to attack LA I think, was captured entering the US from Canada with explosives in 1999.Does any1 realy believe that 911 was the only plot to attack inside the US? The question should be more specific, relating the "Karmic price" to a current situation. OK, Im done rambling lol.
the so called "native americans" as you call them (i call them drunken red-faced gamblers) came here from somewhere else too! my point is this; there will always, in this world be, the have and the have nots and people like you who cry and dwell on the latter! i wish i could open a casino because my ancestors came here from england and i want to be felt sorry for and etc. etc. etc... boo-fucking-hoo for the have nots!
Not at all.If you take a look at our history,weak nations have been taken over by stronger ones constantly.The most of the tribes mentioned in Bible were either assimilated or annihilated.It's just the way it is.
Indians didn't come from somewhere else, they are just an expansion of Aztecs, Incas, or Mayans. Recent occupations... Turk occupation of Constantinope
English occupation of India
Japans occupation of China
Israels occupation of Palestine
Russian occupation of Eastern Europe
Spanish/Portugals occupation of Central and South America
N.Korea occupation in S.Korea
If you look at that you can see that out of those there have been only been 3 succesful occupations not including US occupation of Native America. The Spansh have given control of central America back to its people, N.Korea gave back S.Korea, Japan was forced out of China,etc... You can say that weak nations have been occupied by strong nations, but as more civilized those occupying nations got the more they choose to be the good people and give the land back.
If you take a look at our history,weak nations have been taken over by stronger ones constantly.The most of the tribes mentioned in Bible were either assimilated or annihilated.It's just the way it is. -believe_or_not
Maybe, but does strength justify oppression or does might make right? It's estimated that between 15 and 60 MILLION Indians were murdered by the colonists. That's a lot of blood. My question wasn't particularly in reference to 9/11 or the Iraq war, but maybe those events are the beginning of a karmic payback long due. Not my opinion, but it's certainly a possibility I've wondered about.
"Indians didn't come from somewhere else" First off you pseudo-intellectual, "Indians" come from INDIA, NO PLACE ELSE! So, for the sake of argument (and your lack of education), the point is; WHO FUCKING CARES? it's OVER and DONE with. should I work in some black guys house for the next 400 years as his slave because nobody in my family had any but just because i'm white? go hug a tree, preferably near a school that will teach you not only about Constantinople, but how to fucking spell it! Like I ask stupid muslims: what kinds of idiots bring box-cutters to a gun fight?
Americas "attitude" in the world is this :BRING IT ON MOTHER FUCKERS! We'll send you all down to hell to play checkers with your pig-god!
I don't believe in karma in any shape or form. I could believe more in the capricious Greek fates, old women who just cause things to happen by whim in the universe, than in some righteous series of causes and effects.
So, no, there is no such thing as a karmic readjustment, just someone's physical revenge. Will the Seminole wind up buying back all of the Everglades because of their wildly profitable casinos, then eventually evict all the Southerners and Cubans in the way? Who can say?
Big Daddy:
In that case, will the French be leaving France and giving it back to the Italians as successors to the Romans and/or the Bretons?
Will the English give England back to the Welsh?
Will all of the mainland Chinese live Taiwan and give it back to the native Taiwanese?
Will all Filipinos flee the Philippines and give it back to the negritos in the mountains (who were the 1st inhabitants)?
Will the Turks give Turkey back to the Greeks?
Will all Muslim Arabs leave Egypt and give it entirely to the Copts?
You see how quickly this becomes absurd, don't you?
"live" should be "leave" (-:
Amen Felix! I admit I'm slightly more...brash in my comments...but I think we all get the gist!
btw Felix, the Copts are from Egypt? Now there all here arresting people all the time. but I do love that show on Fox, Copts...filmed with the men and women of law enforcement...all suspects are considered innocent (but treated as guilty) until proven guilty in a court of law! :)
Native Americans didn't come from India dumbass. Native Americans have a completly diffferent culture than India. The settlers from Europ though Natives were from India but there is no proof of that.
Felix,
France, England, Italy, Byzantium were all part of the Roman empire so it should be Romans who give the land to the French, English,etc... The land belongs to the people of France for the French are completly diferent than the English and Italians. King Henry 8 seperated from the Roman empire because he believe England should be independent of Rome. Egypt in Africa always belonged to the Egyptian dynasties. In other words it's like telling fish that the water isn't theirs. In these cases Greeks, Africans, and all of these other cultures have its own gov't but the natives dont.
England has always belonged to the Anglo-Saxons.
England has always belonged to the Anglo-Saxons.
look 4 (of your own) entries back before your last. You STUPID CUNT, YOU called them INDIANS! SUCH an ASSHOLE. what do you call a slovak whore? Slobber on my cock you bitch (Slobdan Milosevic) hahahaha slobber on my cock fag daddy!
It's a lot easier for me to call them Indians for primitives like you can't read "Native American".
"Americas "attitude" in the world is this :BRING IT ON MOTHER FUCKERS!"
No, that's your attitude toward the world.
As far as where Indians come from, many historians believe they are Mongolian descendants who crossed over the Bering Strait when it was frozen over.
BigDaddy: No offense, but...
"France, England, Italy, Byzantium were all part of the Roman empire"
Sure, you go back a bit further than I did, but why stop there? The Romans took those lands from the Celts, the Greeks, the Etruscans, the Sabines, and who knows who else, as it would be a long, long catalogue. Do we go track the relatives of these dispossessed folks down after Roman descendants have the property vested in them?
You see, it just never ends, with your logic. If it's moral to evict people who have been on lands for 300 or 400 years, then why now 1000, 2000 years? What's the difference?
"The land belongs to the people of France"
No, it really belongs to the Bretons, the original Celtic inhabitants, who were neatly shoved on that rocky spit of land called Brittanny. Give it to them!
"King Henry 8"
That was a split for the Church of England from the Catholic church. It had nothing to do with land. Also, the Roman Empire ended in Britannia by around 410 C.E. at the latest. Try again.
"Egypt in Africa"
Oh, what about the Ptolemies, the Romans, and the Byzantines? What about the Nubians who invaded before that? Buy a book on Egyptian history while you're at it.
Sorry, Big D., but this whole issue's dead in the water. The whole world once belong to someone or several someones else. Get over it.
See you're going back like 2000 years, this Native American case happened 200 years ago. When France, England, and Germany were already sovereign and settled. I do think the Turks of Greece should retreat back to the Balkans and give the Eastern half of Anatolia back to the Greeks. Becaue it happened only 500 years ago when people weren't cave men but were more civilized. In the last 500 years any land that was occupied should have been returned or in another case for example, if the US Americans gave Indians a state of their own. Or if the Nubians of North Africa gave the Bantu of North Africa a piece of land. Just so the nationality or culture does not become extinct. But now it is too late for Americans to give North American Indians the land back. Supposable thumbs, your statement that Indians came from Mongolia isn't truly proven. The theory that they came from Mexico and Central America makes more sense. The culture of Mongolians and Indians is different and the culture of Indians and Mexicans can be comparable not only that they have same physical attributes. Felix, in one of my last polls you said my statement that Arabian penninsula not being oppressed is in accurate. The Byzantines never occupied Arabia but made a brave attempt which was a failiure. So the Turks of the East created an assult on Byzantium to finish it off, and settled there. They should not have done that in my opinion.
In general, yes. After the US stole N.America, god was determined to curse it with drugs, murder, prostitution, poverty, retardation, and crime.
Americas "attitude" in the world is this :BRING IT ON MOTHER FUCKERS! We'll send you all down to hell to play checkers with your pig-god!
by Lance_wins_again on Jul 25, 2004
Jinn's really cut loose, hasn't he? I knew he'd drop his delusions of intelligence eventually. Bring it on? Oh dear.
He's using his old words, just on different forms.
We lied, cheated, raped, pillaged, and murdered a magnificent civilization.
I usually don't like to put things in moral terms, but that was evil. The idea of karma seems to make sense, but you could say that about reincarnation, too. I guess this is why we're in the philosophy section. :)
"magnificent civilization" ARE YOU FUCKING HIGH??? we did those fucking savages a favor! look at them, all they like to do is drink and gamble! hahahaha whitey wins again! hahahahahahaha fuck you too bitch! hahaha
We lied, cheated, raped, pillaged, and murdered a magnificent civilization.
I usually don't like to put things in moral terms, but that was evil. The idea of karma seems to make sense, but you could say that about reincarnation, too. I guess this is why we're in the philosophy section. :)
Well put, and I totally agree.
Karma's as "provable" a concept as the idea that some Middle Eastern carpenter returned from the dead 2000 years ago and will judge the souls of all the living. Your notion that such is equitable or "just" means little. Besides, all you're doing is regurgitating "noble savage" stereotypes. There were 1000's of tribes in North and South America. Some were relatively benign, peaceful, and civilized, while others were, by any standard, bloodthirsty savages. You generalize to no effect.
BigDadddy: I want a book cite for your odd claim about the Byzantine Empire in a relatively easily accessible source. Do you have one? Also, I actually would agree with your idea of setting aside a state or two entirely for Native Americans, just as Canada has done for the Inuit. It's not a bad idea, if handled and funded properly. However, how many generations have lived on land after 200 years? Is it any fairer to them? Also, we're more "civilized" over the past 200 years? Weren't you aware that, East and West, the 20th century was the *bloodiest* in human history--Hitler, Stalin, Mao, etc.?
Felix, don't bother with these keyboard cowards! America will ALWAYS be their master and commander and they hate us for it. But, who fucking cares about a cowardly continent of queers??? not moi! hahahaha
America is not my "master and commander" and I thank god for that because if that were true I'd end up like you Lance. In last maybe 100 years there hasn't been a change in civilization and I doubt that there will be. The last time anyone almost succeded in conquering foreign land was in the 90's and then 80's but due to international help they haven't succeded. I get these facts from websites but most of the books I know of aren't English. In any book it will say that Byzantium was an obvious agressor in the 1400's toward Arabia. They weren't just sitting ducks waiting to be shot at.
"not moi!"
I think that any American that uses words like moi should be considered as a queer. No?
It's ok if a French man says it because a lage population of French men a feminists or weird.
"In any book it will say that Byzantium was an obvious agressor in the 1400's toward Arabia." Very well, what book is it? What's the title, and who's the author?
Lance:
It's only the reflexively anti-American mindless Euro leftists I despise. Jean Francois Revel nails their collective ass ("arse" for you Brits) very nicely in his book ANTI-AMERICANISM. They're self righteously oblivious to their own history and current flaws but love to lecture us.
On the other hand, I don't generalize about all Europeans (or just the E.U.) or think they're all of one mind. There's a full political spectrum in Europe, dozens of countries, hundreds of millions of people, & very different histories in different regions of the continent.
I don't want to become as big a simpleton as the trendy Euro leftists who think "all Americans are alike."
Karma's as "provable" a concept as the idea that some Middle Eastern carpenter returned from the dead 2000 years ago and will judge the souls of all the living. Your notion that such is equitable or "just" means little. Besides, all you're doing is regurgitating "noble savage" stereotypes. There were 1000's of tribes in North and South America. Some were relatively benign, peaceful, and civilized, while others were, by any standard, bloodthirsty savages. You generalize to no effect. - Felix
Of course 'karma' isn't a provable concept, nor is God for that matter. Both are notions that require faith, or something akin to faith.
As for 'regurgitating noble savage stereotypes' you're presuming I have no knowledge of Native American history or culture, which is in itself a generalization.
Last comment should read:
presuming WE have no knowledge...
Zig: I don't who your collective "we" is, but this business of painting the natives in Americas with one brush as hapless, peaceful types who were never at fault, *is* a gross generalization. Actually, in terms of total numbers, diseases brought inadvertently by the European settlers did by far the most damage. I'm sure you're familiar with how Francisco Pizarro was amazed to find the Incans already so debilitated by new diseases & shaken by civil wars caused by the results of the power vacuum resulting from the mass deaths from such as he invaded. In total percentages, probably a majority of natives died due to a lack of natural immunity to such illnesses, truly in the millions. Some of the "most conservative" estimates place 65 percent of the Indian population in the Spanish territories dead of smallpox and other imported diseases in the first decades of colonialism. Whose fault is this, exactly? I'm not saying the conquistadores were saintlike in their behavior, but is anyone really to blame for a disease vector?
Felix: Pizarro got lucky because smallpox (from the Spanish slaves of the West Indies?) had already almost totally decimated the Incans, so lucky timing for him, and he didn't waste any time in making full use of a "golden opportunity" in killing off the survivors and pillaging the land.
There is evidence that later, in North America, smallpox was used as a means of deliberate germ warfare against Native American tribes: In a letter dated 1763, from Lord Amherst to Colonel Bouquet, Lord Amherst wrote, "Could it not be contrived to send the Small Pox among those disaffected tribes of Indians? We must on this occasion use every stratagem in our power to reduce them."
There's no evidence that Colonel Bouquet followed through with the suggestion, but there is a short time later, when a certain Captain Simeon Ecuyer (Commander of Fort Pitt, Pennsylvania) was quoted as saying: "Out of our regard for them (two Indian chiefs) we gave them two blankets and a handkerchief out of the smallpox hospital. I hope it will have the desired effect." (Journal of William Trent, 1763)
Nothing inadvertent about that. However you look at it or attempt to rationalize it, what happened to the North American Nations was a clear case of genocide and cultural rape. The evidence speaks for itself.
Felix, I see you are trying to put me in that anti American section in your book and I really don't care. I can tell you that there is nothing I hate more than radicals like Lance_Wins_Again. He's not the only one. But it's mainly the un educated white trash that speak like him. So don't put me in that section. I don't hate any race, nation, or religion. I may dis agree with some of the nations but there is no point of hating the entire country. Books, books, and books. I won't talk books but one book that you may find biased is the Rationalists Manuel. some don't, I think it is biased but sold many copies. It was printed in the late 1800's and blames Chritianity for everything. Why'd I bring it up? Because everything or just about every historical happening that has been put into word has been put in with nothing but the opinion of the actual writer. So instead of look for a book, I looked back at the history of Byzantine empire. I looked at a map and saw that for approx. 1000 years it was the one spreading into Anatolia. An Anatolia that has always been run by non Byzantines. So you do the math and tell me. Why would an expansion of the Roman empire stop in Anatolia? They werent going to stop until they were the ones that ran out of forces and became the "victim". It's like shooting a gun at someone physically stronger than you and when you run out of ammo they come after you. So dont look at it as Islamic expansion. Look at it as karmic payback. The Byzantines paid a fine price for expanding into Anatolia and that is the defeat of themselves. Native Americans. A lot of Natives were aggressors toward other Natives and when the Euros rolled in the agressor Natives paid a Karmic price. But once the Europeans started slaughtering innocent Natives and colonized, they paid a karmic price and recieved drugs, crime, theft, natural disasters, and people like Lance_wins_again to represent them. The US invaded Iraq and look now, the west side is on fire and the east side is under water. Is this just a coincedece? I dont think so, I dont want to argue the war. You probably know my opinion and it wont change. Just whenever a country attacks another they get un lucky and things really dont go their way.
europeans came to americas in 1400's , 300 years went by before usa was a nation, hundreds of thousands of natives were slaughtered by british, spanish, portugal, french. are they also paying. you know columbus did not land in nyc and declared it usa, the european colonist caused so much destructions to the america's long before usa was even dreamed of
yes bigdaddy this is a cooincidence, fires in the west and floods in the east happen every year,. god you really think you know it all don't you. if you think it has something to do with iraq you are nuts. if that were the case , britain would be underwater . for all it has done through the centurys
what a nut case zig must be
I'm right and you are wrong, so live with it.
europeans came to americas in 1400's , 300 years went by before usa was a nation, hundreds of thousands of natives were slaughtered by british, spanish, portugal, french. are they also paying. you know columbus did not land in nyc and declared it usa, the european colonist caused so much destructions to the america's long before usa was even dreamed of
what
yes bigdaddy this is a cooincidence, fires in the west and floods in the east happen every year,. god you really think you know it all don't you. if you think it has something to do with iraq you are nuts. if that were the case , britain would be underwater . for all it has done through the centurys
mike1952: If you read the top of the ballot again it says, "If America was stolen and its original inhabitants slaughtered by EUROPEAN colonials"... which is true. Why are you calling me a nut case?
not calling you a nut case, reminding bigdaddy that he is one
apologize for being so rude, but bigdaddy or what ever his name is, will not look at facts, tell him you were referring to man made disaster because he thinks their is some cosmic alligning of the stars that is directed at america and this is why we are having hurricanes and forrest fires. Not just because of what our annestors did, but what we are doing in iraq. We all know fires in the west and hurricanes in the south are normal and probably have been occuring sence the beginning of time.
note the wheather for spring and summer
Even though nighttime lows in most places are in the low 70s F/21-23 C, you may want a sweater for the times when the air conditioning is too cool (Texans seem to love it that way) or when you're visiting the far north or mountains. (Spring and summer can bring intense}, heavy rains and occasional tornadoes. Hurricanes are possible in August and September. In the dry western part of the state, dust storms can occur in March and April
egypt was occupied for centurys by romans, french , british.
While advanced imaging and computer technology can help predict fire behavior in the future, tree ring analysis reveals fire patterns of centuries past. In western United States, researchers and collaborators from the University of Arizona's Laboratory of Tree-Ring Research have put together what is believed to be the longest and most detailed fire histories anywhere. The records, assembled from fire scars in the annual growth rings of giant sequoias, extend back over 2,000 years, and show that fire typically burned on the floor of sequoia groves every three to eight years.
Since 1910, western fire frequency has
not changed and fire size has not
increased. Intense fires were equally
common in the years before
widespread fire suppression as today,
and do not appear to
be the result of fuels build-up.
Ignore my comments if you disagree with them.
Ignore my comments if you disagree with them..
Ok, I'll be honest: I placed the word GENOCIDE in the ballot. Genocide by whom? Who do you think?? Hello....
Using the same logic you could say that the Amerindians were paying the karmic price for slaughtering each other over territory.It is also a little known fact that of the five basic dna markers that exist among them one of them is caucasian.More specifically it is maternal dna which means that it is dna that was passed along through a female population.In other words caucasians were in fact here in the Americas at least as early as the mongol breeds and in fact slaughtered all of the men of one of these groups of whites and kept the women as wives and/or slaves which is how marker x came to be introduced into the dna of various amerind tribes.
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